June 15, 2004
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I’m going on a Church youth retreat type thing this weekend called youth conference, so I won’t be xangaing for a few days. (Thursday-Saturday)
I am definatley ready to move into Deseret Towers (but I have to wait until Aug 25). I’m just tired of cleaning up after siblings and parents always around to tell me what to do and cooking meals that feed 8 and listening to sisters practice the piano and having my door opened while I’m asleep . . .
444 days since I joined xanga . . . wow.
Comments (9)
hmm, i wonder what dorm life is going to be like…probably alright…i mean we won’t clean up after ourselves, and won’t be cooking meals but we’ll probably have people walking into our dorms while we’re asleep :-p. that’ll be strange, hopefully i get a cool roommate. He’d better not be a social leper, or just a weirdo :-p.
btw, nice job answering the question from alightinthedarkness, you’ll end up becoming a fine missionary if you continue answering questions like that about doctrine/church foundations. Good times…
okay thank you for giving me better understanding of blood atonement. I havn’t met any mormons who knew what it is. there is one problem; blood atonement basicly says “God isn’t strong enough to forgive us of all our sins and his work on the cross isn’t good enough.” Hebrews 7:27: “who does not need daily, as those high preists, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins andthen for the people’s, *for this he did once and for all when he offered up Himself*” KJV (sorry, It’s as close as I could get.) also in that chapter, look at 9:24-28, 10:10, 12, 14, and 1 Peter 3:18.
another thing that has been on my mind:I know in the title pages of the book of mormon, there is a testimony where the reader is asked to pray that the things in the book of mormon are true. right? I promise this is relevant, but it might take a second; when I was in 6th grade, I went to church with my friend, I heard the gospel for the first time. I immediatly “accepted” Christ, and felt a funny sensation, thought that it was God. I realized that the life I was living, even after beinging “saved” wasn’t the way I was supposed to. I had a foul mouth, was rude and told bad jokes. I went back to church last year and accepted Christ again, I felt no funny sensation, but am now more alive than I’ve ever been. in my opinion, when one bases their faith or even salvation on a feeling, they’re on a flimsy foundation. what is happening is that person is romanticising salvation. fellings are temporary and subject to change. instead, one sould base their faith in truth, solid truth. search the book of mormon, there are many contridictions between it and the bible, and even its self. I’m working on a list of those contridictions, I’ll have it later.
Sincerely,
a teenage Christian
ps. I realize the books weren’t written in order, but they are chronologicly ordered in a way that outlines history. the bible starts with the begining of time and ends with the begining of eternity.
pps. could you explain to me something else? when Christ died, he said when he returned, it would be to start his kingdom, but after he ascended, he came back to earth, and went up again, doesn’t that mean that when he returns, it will be his third coming? that definitely goes against scripture. thanks.
I know how you’re feeling. Luckily, I only have to wait 3 more days until I’m off to byu. Good luck to you! I hope your sanity lasts. >_O
What I felt was not a funny sensation, it was a powerful, sweet euphoria that came after I prayed to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. My beliefs are not based on a feeling that is subject to change, they are based on the answers to many prayers after much research.
“The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.” Psalms 145:18
Read also Ephesians 1:15-20; it talks about God giving his saints the “spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him,”
God does answer prayers. (Matthew 7:7) How do you believe he answers prayers?
When Peter bore his testimony of Jesus the Christ, Jesus told him, “flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 16:17) We learn from this a valuable lesson. Our beliefs should not be founded in the craft of man. Our beliefs should not be solely based on truth as it is presented by flesh and blood, rather, our beliefs should be grounded in Jesus Christ directly through His Spirit.
I believe in the Book of Mormon because my Father which is in heaven has revealed its truth to me, and I have complete faith in that revelation. “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith” (Romans 1:17).
One last thing. I noticed in your story you were basing your judgement of what is right on the results or “fruits” rather than on the feeling. When you “went back to Church” and “accepted Christ again” without the “funny sensation” you became “more alive” and you implied that you started living a more righteous lifestyle.
I have never sworn in my life. I don’t do drugs. I read my scriptures. I strive to live a righteous lifestyle and I am very much “alive” in Christ. This shows a foundation much stronger than just flimsy changing feelings, right?
I close with the words of Peter (Peter 1):
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”
I am grateful for what has been revealed to me in this last time.
P.S. I apologize if at any point in that comment I became too defensive. Oh, and if Revelation is not the most recently written part of the Bible, then any other revelation written or discovered after it is not necessarily false or cursed because to say so would be to say that parts of the Bible are false or cursed, and that is heresy. Clearly Paul was refering specifically to the book of Revelation when he said that he who added to his words would be cursed.
How did you recieve a direct revelation? Did you hear voices, or did He write it on the wall? Sounds pretty charismatic to me. God had direct communication with the prophets in the old testament because they were put in a position to pass on His message. Now we have the very words of God in the Bible. We don’t need to have prophets or “revelations” from Him. I’m not saying it’s not possible, for He can do anything, and He has worked in ways we can’t understand.
You still had a feeling when you prayed for salvation. I did not feel anything, but security and peace. But, those were long term, and have not left. When kimmielovesjorge said he went back to church, he is not referring to a one time thing. He started coming and getting plugged in, and receiving the gospel message. He then “accepted Christ” after confessing his sinful state, repenting and asking Christ into His heart, through prayer. He is now “more alive” than ever because you have no life without Christ. You are either living by Him and for the purpose He has created us, or you are condemned and frankly, not living at all. He knows his own heart and whether or not he is really a born again christian, but his fruits are an outward expression of an inward attitude. They allow others to notice his different lifestyle, and that gives an opportunity to share the reason for living soley for Christ. However, you cannot say you have salvation because you have fruits. (Matthew 3:8, 3:10, 5:16 and Galations 5:22-24) “Repentence itself is not a work, but works are it’s inevitable fruit.”… “Fruits of the Spirit are Godly attitudes the characterize the lives of only those who belong to God by faith in Christ and posses the Spirit of God.” -John Macarthur. You’ve never sworn, you don’t do drugs, and you read your scriptures, and that might mean you are a “good” person with “good” morals. But anyone can say the same. The pharisees followed a “righteous” lifestyle also, did they not? It’s seems your foundation may not be based on merely feelings, but on something equally flimsy.
The emotions I feel when I think about my own choice to accept Christ into my life is also long term peace, comfort, and assurance. When I think about my own choice to believe that the Book of Mormon is a true testament of Jesus Christ, I also feel long term peace, comfort, and assurance, so I’m not sure I understand your point there.
When did God say he would stop communicating with his people on Earth? He didn’t just speak to the prophets or ancient days, he spoke to his saints after the resurection of Christ. They recieved an outpouring of his spirit that included amazing feelings, prophesying, and revelation. If he was still communicating with his saints after the original Apostles were called, why and when did he stop?
When I look around, I see a world that desperately needs a prophet. I’m glad God gave us one.
My point about righteous living is exactly what you just said, it is a sign of one who “belong[s] to God by faith in Christ and posses the Spirit of God.” I understand that it doesn’t mean all good people are real Christians, but it is a good indicator. I never said living moral standards was my foundation, I said it shows a much stronger foundation.
What indication would show that I am not Christian? You guys seem so convinced that because I am LDS I am not Chrisian, and yet I too have “recieved the gospel message” as taught by Jesus Christ in the Bible and have confessed my sins and been baptized and become “alive in Christ” for the purpose I believe He created me for. Salvation is something between me and my God, why would he reveal my salvation to anyone other than myself? I know my heart, and I know that I am a disciple of Jesus, a Christian, and one of his saints in these later days.
We talked earlier about judging. Why do you believe Christ wants you to find faithful people and say that they aren’t Christian? Is that part of his gospel?
One important question was left unanswered:
How do you believe God answers prayers?
aww dan, its gonna be sad to see you go! but i know you will have a lot of fun and a good experience out there. i was just reading the previous comment and, wow dan, its like you knowledge never ends! you will make a good missionary! -lily…we are still talking right? haha
there have been many instances of God answering my prayers. I never said He didn’t. He answers them according to His will and what will bring Him glory, not according to our desires.
“I noticed in your story you were basing your judgement of what is right on the results or “fruits” rather than on the feeling. When you “went back to Church” and “accepted Christ again” without the “funny sensation” you became “more alive” and you implied that you started living a more righteous lifestyle.”
yes, I did. I don’t need abstract feelings to show me I’m saved. God doesn’t either. remember when Christ saw the fig tree? it wasn’t bearing fruit, so he killed it. We know (and so do others) we are saved by the fruits we produce and the life we live.
“We talked earlier about judging. Why do you believe Christ wants you to find faithful people and say that they aren’t Christian? Is that part of his gospel?”
well, it is part of Christianity. If we love people, we should have a desire for everyone to beleive the truth. I am conversing with faithful mormons because people in their church look up to them. If I can get the important ones to beleive only the bible, the ones who follow them might be inclined to do the same.
“because I am LDS I am not Chrisian, and yet I too have “recieved the gospel message” as taught by Jesus Christ in the Bible and have confessed my sins and been baptized and become ‘alive in Christ’”
baptisim has nothing to do with salvation (if I had a bible with me, I could give you a few awesome verses for this). It is a requirement for those who are saved to be baptized to show others their new faith and to be associated with Christ. I know baptisim for the dead and temple work are prevalent in the LDS church, but in one of the corinthian chapters, 13 or 14, it talks about this topic and blatently states the purpose of baptism.
The major problems I have with the book of mormon is the way it was revealed, the man who revealed it and the story of the nephites.
Joe changes the reason he went in the forest to pray, his age and who visited him between the 1st and 3rd times he told his story. If you witnessed an accident and changed why you were there, your age, and who was involved, no one would believe you saw it. Where are the golden plates? oh, in heaven because God wanted to protect them. why didn’t He protect the other plates he wrote (or inspired man to write)? because He knows people are going to have a hard time beleiving what they can’t see. plus, He is strong enough to protect what he wants here on earth. Just like He is strong enough to protect the words of the Bible so they aren’t altered to the point of proclaiming false doctrine.
All I need to say about the man it was revealed to is this:
here’s that website of joseph smith’s history:
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761562572
Finally the nephites. Choose any city in the book of mormon. find a record of that city outside any of the mormon inspired documents. or at least try. choose any city in the bible, I’m cirtain one could find info on that city.
Any city? Does Nahom work? Nahom is a city mentioned only in the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 16:34) and in archeological discoveries a hundred years after Joseph Smith. See this site for details (http://www.jefflindsay.com/bme15.shtml) or this site (http://www.lehistrail.com/research/index.php?id=973125366).
If I were to pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Christ and ask him if the Bible was really true, what do you think would happen? You still haven’t explained to me what you think happens when one faithfully prays for a specific knowledge.
As for baptism, I’m sure you are familiar with John 3:5 “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” If baptism is not required for salvation, then what is salvation like outside the kingdom of God?
On the Book of Mormon. Could Joseph Smith just make it up? An uneducated farm boy? How could he have accurately written (so quickly too) so much about ancient olive tree cultivation, ancient hebrew names not in the Bible like “Alma” and “Sariah”, ancient methods of keeping records on metal tablets or sheets (only recently has this been discovered as fairly common), detailed wars and flashbacks, the geography of the Arabian peninsula, and Hebrew and Arabic language structure? (read this fascinating article that provides logical support of the Book of Mormon )
You have a problem with the way the Book was revealed? The idea of an angel giving a prophet a holy book or holy writ is also seen in Exodus, Jeremiah, Ezekiael, and the Revelation of St. John.
As to your issues with man the book was revealed to . . . after reading that article, it sounds like you have a problem with polygamy. You believe in the ancient prophets, right? Like Abraham, Jacob, Issac and others? They had more than one wife, and yet you believe their words. I’m sure you could understand why I believe the words of Joseph Smith.
One more thing, your so called truths as presented in your comments would be much more convincing if the Spirit was with them. I don’t feel the Holy Ghost when I read your comments. I know that feelings don’t mean anything to you, but I think you will find that the fruits of truth do feel good. Consider losing the sarcasm and disrespect that taint the tone of your voice. Can you imagine Jesus Christ using that tone?
From now on if anyone refers to the Prophet Joseph Smith as “Joe” “Jo-Jo” or any other disrespectful term/name on my site, they will promptly be blocked and the comment deleted. I’m sure that you would agree that Jesus Christ taught respect. If you are so convinced that Joseph Smith was a sinner, remember that Jesus Christ ate many meals with sinners. I don’t disrespect your religious leaders.